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Thread: 6 Million Jews Murdered By Nazis In The Holocaust

  1. #31
    As seen on TV! Dracula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dead Lesbian Goat View Post
    It's not the origins of the camp, it's the way he is somehow qualifying the existence of the camps. It's like someone saying the 9/11 attacks were just people trying to make a point. It rubs me the wrong way.
    My point is that the primary goal wasn't death; it was a place to harbor slave labor. As Steve stated, it is worse to languish for months in horrible conditions than it is to be immediately put to death. It was not an efficient, organized system. It was people being shoved wherever they could and dying of malnutrition, being worked to death, allied bombings, or intentionally being executed. Going straight form the train car to death would have been better than months of suffering, but the contributions were vital to the war effort and people were kept just alive enough to keep working.

    This is the horrible workings behind the system that propped Germany up at the time and what bothers me most is that it's presented as a clean, precise system where those in positions of power knew every step of what was going on. In reality, it was a poor system initially intending to remove and relocate people that turned into a barbaric example of what happens when blame is shifted to a scapegoat.

    I believe that the Nazis would have killed every single Jew if they had been able to; however they weren't and they needed them alive to build the bombs and support the war effort.

    I want the parallels to what the Nazis were doing and what the US did to the Japanese to be compared, and how we were dangerously close to it ourselves. I want there to be more said about how socialism and Nazism were gaining very serious ground in the 1930s.

    I don't want it to keep being labelled as this efficient and systematic process. I want it to be made apparent to the world how precariously we are to such things happening at all times. When it's seen as an act by unspeakable monsters that required massive amounts of cooperation, it's dismissed as impossible to ever happen again. When it's revealed as only being a few failed government programs away, the true horror is always present.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dead Lesbian Goat View Post
    It's not the origins of the camp, it's the way he is somehow qualifying the existence of the camps. It's like someone saying the 9/11 attacks were just people trying to make a point. It rubs me the wrong way.
    You're still my #1, but this makes no sense to me at all (sorry brah....)


    Quote Originally Posted by Dracula View Post
    My point is that the primary goal wasn't death; it was a place to harbor slave labor. As Steve stated, it is worse to languish for months in horrible conditions than it is to be immediately put to death. It was not an efficient, organized system. It was people being shoved wherever they could and dying of malnutrition, being worked to death, allied bombings, or intentionally being executed. Going straight form the train car to death would have been better than months of suffering, but the contributions were vital to the war effort and people were kept just alive enough to keep working.

    This is the horrible workings behind the system that propped Germany up at the time and what bothers me most is that it's presented as a clean, precise system where those in positions of power knew every step of what was going on. In reality, it was a poor system initially intending to remove and relocate people that turned into a barbaric example of what happens when blame is shifted to a scapegoat.

    I believe that the Nazis would have killed every single Jew if they had been able to; however they weren't and they needed them alive to build the bombs and support the war effort.

    I want the parallels to what the Nazis were doing and what the US did to the Japanese to be compared, and how we were dangerously close to it ourselves. I want there to be more said about how socialism and Nazism were gaining very serious ground in the 1930s.

    I don't want it to keep being labelled as this efficient and systematic process. I want it to be made apparent to the world how precariously we are to such things happening at all times. When it's seen as an act by unspeakable monsters that required massive amounts of cooperation, it's dismissed as impossible to ever happen again. When it's revealed as only being a few failed government programs away, the true horror is always present.
    This, to me, seems most plausible. I'm no historian, but from what I've seen in life, a simple sense of logic can be overlaid on many situations. What Chad wrote here makes the most sense to me, I think most horrible situations are something that escalated. The last paragraph is something everyone should pay close attention to.


    BTW, I saw in Steve's pics there's a sign referring to numbers of people that mention Poles, Gypsies, Soviets, & others. It makes me ask a question that I'm not hearing from anyone else: why is it only Jewish people being referred to/argued about? It looks to me (based on Steve's pic,) that it wasn't only Jewish people. Apparently, "team Bill" doesn't care what happened to Poles, Gypsies, Soviets, & others.
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  3. #33
    "The Goat" Dead Lesbian Goat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_NYS View Post
    You're still my #1, but this makes no sense to me at all (sorry brah....)
    I will try to expand. I get the original use for the camps was not what they ended up being. My point is the original purpose is irrelevant considering the "improvements" (for lack of a better word) made to the existing facilitates and the scale of the pure evil they went down in history as being. It's a point that doesn't need to be made and when I hear it, in my head it come across as some kind of piss poor excuse for their very existence. As if to say if they were not there to begin with, the Nazis may not have not committed mass genocide...the Nazis were just victims of circumstance. I don't think bad of Chad, I just think dwelling on the original intent removes our focus on what the final solution was all about.

    Fair enough?
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dead Lesbian Goat View Post
    I will try to expand. I get the original use for the camps was not what they ended up being. My point is the original purpose is irrelevant considering the "improvements" (for lack of a better word) made to the existing facilitates and the scale of the pure evil they went down in history as being. It's a point that doesn't need to be made and when I hear it, in my head it come across as some kind of piss poor excuse for their very existence. As if to say if they were not there to begin with, the Nazis may not have not committed mass genocide...the Nazis were just victims of circumstance. I don't think bad of Chad, I just think dwelling on the original intent removes our focus on what the final solution was all about.
    I understand now what you're saying, and your point does makes sense, but it doesn't seem to me that Chad is coming across like that.
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  5. #35
    "The Goat" Dead Lesbian Goat's Avatar
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    Chad has offended me. I demand he be banned and I be escorted by two gender neutral DMCToday officers to my assigned safe space.

    Also if there were cookies when I get there, it would not be looked upon poorly.
    Three rules of DeLorean ownership:
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    2: A hammer is always the right tool for the job.
    3: Anything can be used as a hammer.

  6. #36
    Uncensored Hypocrite stevedmc's Avatar
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    The Jewish people were considered sub human by the Nazis simply because of their race and were taken as slaves or exterminated.

    The other groups of people who were not Jewish, we simply taken as prisoners/slaves for opposing the Nazi party. It had to do with ideology and nothing to do with race.

    I suppose that is why the Jewish people get much more attention, along with the fact they suffered more than anyone else.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dead Lesbian Goat View Post
    Chad has offended me. I demand he be banned and I be escorted by two gender neutral DMCToday officers to my assigned safe space.

    Also if there were cookies when I get there, it would not be looked upon poorly.

    LOL....seems reasonable!


    Quote Originally Posted by stevedmc View Post
    The Jewish people were considered sub human by the Nazis simply because of their race and were taken as slaves or exterminated.

    The other groups of people who were not Jewish, we simply taken as prisoners/slaves for opposing the Nazi party. It had to do with ideology and nothing to do with race.

    I suppose that is why the Jewish people get much more attention, along with the fact they suffered more than anyone else.

    I never heard that explanation, thank you sir.

    All these years I've called Steve a Gypsy, who would've thought he doesn't like Gypsies?



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  8. #38
    As seen on TV! Dracula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dead Lesbian Goat View Post
    I will try to expand. I get the original use for the camps was not what they ended up being. My point is the original purpose is irrelevant considering the "improvements" (for lack of a better word) made to the existing facilitates and the scale of the pure evil they went down in history as being. It's a point that doesn't need to be made and when I hear it, in my head it come across as some kind of piss poor excuse for their very existence. As if to say if they were not there to begin with, the Nazis may not have not committed mass genocide...the Nazis were just victims of circumstance. I don't think bad of Chad, I just think dwelling on the original intent removes our focus on what the final solution was all about.

    Fair enough?
    I'm not arguing that wasn't the intent at all; Hitler's entire platform was based on hatred of the Jews. He'd been talking about it since he took office in 1933. I believe that the only reason that there weren't purpose-built murder centers was because that would have been hard to sell the populous on. The only thing that slowed them down was that they didn't have the resources to devote to total slaughter.

    I choose to focus on how it was obtained through normal means by what was a sanctioned act that most of the populous was oblivious to; the average German citizen being given the choice of join the Nazi party or die was not going to question what they were doing.

    Hitler and his cohorts wanted to execute the Jews and would use whatever means available to obtain it; I see where Michael is misinterpreting my point. Think of it as two men with forks; one is starving and focuses on how it can be used for food, the other only wants to kill the man opposite of him and the fork is nothing but a weapon to obtain this goal. That in the midst of a war where resources were stretched thin; so thin that Germany had to keep invading countries to keep its Army rolling, they were still able to dedicate resources and effort to making a fork into a weapon. To me, the fact that they would put their nation in jeopardy, consume valuable resources, and risk losing the war over hatred of a group of people is more telling. It stands more as a testament of evil when the context of what was done specifically out of hatred and, apart from the benefit of slave labor, had an overall negative impact on the war as a whole.

    Countless discussions are raised about whether or not Hitler should have invaded Russia; but what about the effect of the camps? How many more men were occupied by this that could have been on the lines? How many scarce resources were diverted?

    When viewed in the context that the war could have changed, it reshapes focus and puts it so that Hitler actively put hatred of the Jews before his professed love of Germany. I've always viewed the fact that they converted WWI camps, diverted war resources, reallocated thousands of men, and undermined their very nation to pursue their goal as a more powerful statement than "they sent them to camps to kill them." To me, the context is the difference in being bitten by a snake and being bitten by a venomous snake. The poison behind the action needs to be seen.
    -Chad K.
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    "Count of Islandia; Colonel of the Defense Forces and Chancellor of Transportation."

  9. #39
    The guy couldn't even carb his Delorean, so I somewhat understand his visceral frustration. That would drive anybody mad.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duplicate Account View Post
    The guy couldn't even carb his Delorean, so I somewhat understand his visceral frustration. That would drive anybody mad.
    Post a link, there's a few guys here who haven't seen it....LOL!
    Bro....do you own a DeLorean?


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