View Poll Results: Is NightFlyer A Good Admin Of This Forum?

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    14 77.78%
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Thread: Is NightFlyer a Good Admin?

  1. #21
    As seen on TV! Dracula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightFlyer View Post
    1) Bill's screen name has NOTHING to do with the validity of the contents of his posts under that screen name - the two are disconnected and unrelated. Those reading his posts must make a judgment call as to the validity of the contents of posts, same as always and for everyone.

    EXAMPLE: If I made an account named 'Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ,' would you believe that I was actually Jesus of Nazareth, taking everything I posted as Holy gospel and live your life accordingly?

    Bill has a new screen name, but still identifies himself as Bill. As I said before, where's the fire here?

    2) Bill has asserted his perspective of the deal (but not all of it - again, we still don't know all the facts). You and Lou have asserted your perspectives of the deal as well (but not all of it - again, we still don't know all the facts). They contradict with one another. We clearly have a 'he said, she said' going on here from the perspective of an outsider looking in. No one has any evidence outside of their own testimony.

    That said, I'm inclined to believe you and Lou over Bill about how the manifold exchange went down and to whom payment was made. However, we still don't know many of the relevant material facts such as how much Chad paid Bill for Lou's manifold and carb, when such was paid to Bill, the form of the payment, etc. Again, we still don't know all the facts, and yet, you act as if I should be making a judgment about the whole thing already. Sorry, but I can't do that without first knowing all the relevant material facts from both sides.

    3) You must recall the situation when Farrar accidentally edited one of Bill's comments, yes? Remember the shit storm that caused? And that was an innocent mistake. And yet, for whatever reason, you thought that an impostor account mocking Bill, in an environment where you and Lou were engaged in a standing feud with Bill, would be interpreted as being funny, as opposed to adding fuel to a fire that was already burning???

    Need I say more? I sincerely hope not. That was a bad judgment call my friend, especially considering your direct involvement/participation in the feud with Bill.

    4) Bill's original account should be fine, and he's welcome to return to it.

    5) What double standard am I engaged in exactly?

    Impostor accounts, anonymous accounts used for the sole purpose of attacking a member(s), and essentially any account used for evil/no good/to stir up shit/etc aren't tolerated and will be shut down when identified.

    Innocuous dual accounts, such as Ron and Lou had, and others may have, have NOT been shut down by myself. I knew that Lou was Prof Hinkley when he first created the account - it was very obvious. And it went on for years - I NEVER shut it down. If Lou wanted to use the account to talk to himself, I never had a problem with it, though it was a little weird, as Michael said.

    6) You "question my judgment in regards to Bill" - how so exactly? When Bill crossed the line concerning belittling your military service, and you actually expressed your dissatisfaction with such, I fully agreed with you and it was appropriately dealt with, wasn't it? The only reason I didn't do so myself earlier is because you could have done so yourself but you didn't. I even directly asked you about it on several occasions and your response was always that it didn't phase you and only made Bill appear to be foolish for those who were following along.

    I'm really confused at all of these unfounded and unsupported accusations
    The fact that Bill made a new account because he couldn't figure out how to log in to his account is a problem of integrity.

    Though, I find it amusing that he creates an account that posts information that is clearly a lie under a misspelling of truth.

    Bill keeps changing his perspective of the deal between him and I to whatever supports his views.

    You are enforcing a double standard by allowing Bill statements that are obvious lies from multiple accounts; the fact that both Lou and I disagree with it and that it came out of nowhere is a good indicator of that.

    I question your judgement about Bill when you decided that you had to override the decision Steve and I made to temporarily ban Bill. That shows that you feel as though you know more than the site owner and his desires. You undid a decision made by the forum owner because it disagreed with your judggement. For that, I disagree with your status as an administrator and think that you should also resign.
    -Chad K.
    Previous owner of VINS: 6982, 1601, 1265, and 1269

    Dammit, Jim. I'm an undertaker, not a mechanic.

  2. #22
    Devout Follower Of He Who Walks Behind The Rows NightFlyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracula View Post
    The fact that Bill made a new account because he couldn't figure out how to log in to his account is a problem of integrity.
    How so and why?

    No one has stated that they've been confused by this, as Bill has always identified himself as Bill, regardless of what account he was using.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dracula View Post
    Though, I find it amusing that he creates an account that posts information that is clearly a lie under a misspelling of truth.
    A lie from your perspective. For an outsider looking in, all they see is a disagreement between two or more parties - the classic proverbial 'he said, she said.'

    The misspelling is amusing though

    Quote Originally Posted by Dracula View Post
    Bill keeps changing his perspective of the deal between him and I to whatever supports his views.
    I still don't know the full details of your deal with Bill, even after you offered your full and complete explanation, as essential material facts are still missing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dracula View Post
    You are enforcing a double standard by allowing Bill statements that are obvious lies from multiple accounts; the fact that both Lou and I disagree with it and that it came out of nowhere is a good indicator of that.
    How is what you've stated a double standard, exactly? What are the two differing and contradictory standards that I'm allegedly enforcing here, exactly?

    As to whether Bill is actually lying, again, that can't be definitively determined by anyone here with any degree of certainty. It's a classic he said, she said. I can no more accept your version of the truth without allowing Bill a defense and rebuttal than I could vice versa, while remaining fair, impartial, unbiased, and objective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dracula View Post
    I question your judgement about Bill when you decided that you had to override the decision Steve and I made to temporarily ban Bill. That shows that you feel as though you know more than the site owner and his desires. You undid a decision made by the forum owner because it disagreed with your judggement. For that, I disagree with your status as an administrator and think that you should also resign.
    Steve is the site founder and leader, but when he started accepting donations from the members, the forum became that of the membership at large.

    I undid your and Steve's decisions because they violated the principles upon which the forum was founded. I made NO personal judgment calls in doing what I did. I simply applied our founding principles to the situation at hand, and acted in accordance with those principles.

    You may disagree, but it would appear that both Steve, and an overwhelming majority of the membership at large agreed with the actions I took - this is an objective and indisputable fact. Only three people find me to be a bad admin - you by your admission here (which is solely premised on the whole situation with Bill), I'm guessing that Lou voted against me as well by the mere fact that he always complains about me (though his complaints are rarely based in the reality of the situation), and an anonymous third person.

    I assure you, nothing was personal. In all honesty, I really don't like being an admin - it's a serious drain of my time, especially when crap like this happens. I accepted the position to help out Steve and because I believe in the forum and want to see it succeed.

    Without me, you and Michael would have segregated Bill out of the Open section, just because he was expressing opinions/positions that were contrary to the consensus of other members, remember that? How did that action comply with our founding principles exactly? Steve, in a Talk like move, banned Bill for essentially the same reason, simply because he was getting frustrated over all the complaints he was receiving about Bill. I quickly undid that action as well, because it was contrary to our founding principles.

    I don't want to speak for Steve, but I think that he respects and relies on the fact that I've proven to be objective, impartial, unbiased, equal, fair, consistent, and transparent when it comes to this forum, and often defers to me on such matters because he knows that he can implicitly trust me when it comes to the integrity of the forum.

    If this makes me a bad guy to anyone, then so be it.

    I'll gladly step down if/when I have a conflict of interest or a consensus of the actively posting membership requests that I do. I think that's fair, don't you?
    "Driving Concours - proving it's possible with every mile!"

    --Josh S.
    #1798

  3. #23
    As seen on TV! Dracula's Avatar
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    I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on you being impartial and whetheryou belong as an admin. I have nothing further to say on that matter.
    -Chad K.
    Previous owner of VINS: 6982, 1601, 1265, and 1269

    Dammit, Jim. I'm an undertaker, not a mechanic.

  4. #24
    Just Plain Nuts Lou and "Boo"'s Avatar
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    To be honest and stand up here, It was anything but impressive for Josh to take it upon himself to override Steve. Don't get me wrong , I do not want to see anyone banned. Everyone is welcome here according to me. In fact I'd like to start talking to Bill again. But no matter the specifics, Steve is the site owner and when he makes a decision and one of the mods override it, THAT is where I draw the line.

    Think of Tamir taking action on Talk and then Soundkillr overruling it. It makes a mockery of the forum IMO.


    Being honest, please do not be offended. My frankness is not intended to be insulting.

    Peace.
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  5. #25
    Devout Follower Of He Who Walks Behind The Rows NightFlyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lou and "Boo" View Post
    To be honest and stand up here, It was anything but impressive for Josh to take it upon himself to override Steve. Don't get me wrong , I do not want to see anyone banned. Everyone is welcome here according to me. In fact I'd like to start talking to Bill again. But no matter the specifics, Steve is the site owner and when he makes a decision and one of the mods override it, THAT is where I draw the line.

    Think of Tamir taking action on Talk and then Soundkillr overruling it. It makes a mockery of the forum IMO.


    Being honest, please do not be offended. My frankness is not intended to be insulting.

    Peace.
    The primary difference between Today and Talk is that Tamir self-funds Talk, thus if he wants to run it like a dictator, more power to him.

    Steve accepts donations from the membership to fund this forum, thus the true owner(s) of the forum at this point are in fact the membership at large. Steve is our founder and main leader, but the principles upon which the forum was founded trump Steve's decision when they conflict with one another.

    When Steve acted against the principles upon which the forum was founded, that's what truly made a mockery of and compromised the integrity of the forum.

    Steve is NOT a dictator as Tamir is.

    As I said before, I made no personal decision myself. I merely applied the principles upon which the forum was founded and applied them to the situation at hand in acting as I did. And via the actions he has taken, Steve ultimately agreed with everything that I've done. That's because I've proven to Steve, and a vast majority of the others here, that I'm unbiased, unconflicted, impartial, fair, equal, consistent, and transparent in how I exercise the admin capabilities here on the forum.

    Not to toot my own horn, but in all honesty, who here has demonstrated their commitment to the integrity of the forum and the principles upon which it was founded better than I?
    "Driving Concours - proving it's possible with every mile!"

    --Josh S.
    #1798

  6. #26
    Just Plain Nuts Lou and "Boo"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightFlyer View Post
    The primary difference between Today and Talk is that Tamir self-funds Talk, thus if he wants to run it like a dictator, more power to him.

    Steve accepts donations from the membership to fund this forum, thus the true owner(s) of the forum at this point are in fact the membership at large. Steve is our founder and main leader, but the principles upon which the forum was founded trump Steve's decision when they conflict with one another.

    When Steve acted against the principles upon which the forum was founded, that's what truly made a mockery of and compromised the integrity of the forum.

    Steve is NOT a dictator as Tamir is.

    As I said before, I made no personal decision myself. I merely applied the principles upon which the forum was founded and applied them to the situation at hand in acting as I did. And via the actions he has taken, Steve ultimately agreed with everything that I've done. That's because I've proven to Steve, and a vast majority of the others here, that I'm unbiased, unconflicted, impartial, fair, equal, consistent, and transparent in how I exercise the admin capabilities here on the forum.

    Not to toot my own horn, but in all honesty, who here has demonstrated their commitment to the integrity of the forum and the principles upon which it was founded better than I?
    I think that's a discussion between you and Steve.
    Lou and "Boo" - The man you love to hate.

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  7. #27
    Uncensored Hypocrite stevedmc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightFlyer View Post
    The primary difference between Today and Talk is that Tamir self-funds Talk, thus if he wants to run it like a dictator, more power to him.

    Steve accepts donations from the membership to fund this forum, thus the true owner(s) of the forum at this point are in fact the membership at large. Steve is our founder and main leader, but the principles upon which the forum was founded trump Steve's decision when they conflict with one another.

    When Steve acted against the principles upon which the forum was founded, that's what truly made a mockery of and compromised the integrity of the forum.

    Steve is NOT a dictator as Tamir is.

    As I said before, I made no personal decision myself. I merely applied the principles upon which the forum was founded and applied them to the situation at hand in acting as I did. And via the actions he has taken, Steve ultimately agreed with everything that I've done. That's because I've proven to Steve, and a vast majority of the others here, that I'm unbiased, unconflicted, impartial, fair, equal, consistent, and transparent in how I exercise the admin capabilities here on the forum.

    Not to toot my own horn, but in all honesty, who here has demonstrated their commitment to the integrity of the forum and the principles upon which it was founded better than I?
    What he said. I wanted to make rules and I even banned Bill. I was quickly put in the corner and told to behave. This you guy's forum. I'm just the guy that started it.
    Rest assured, we have a backup of Farrar's car blog and it will be restored in the near future. (Steve Rice - March 2016)
    Rest assured, we have a backup of Shep's posts and all of them will be restored in the near future. (Steve Rice - March 2017)

  8. #28
    Just Plain Nuts Lou and "Boo"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevedmc View Post
    What he said. I wanted to make rules and I even banned Bill. I was quickly put in the corner and told to behave. This you guy's forum. I'm just the guy that started it.

    And 'us guys' are very thankful that you started it Steve.


    Carry on!


    This is like Outback Steakhouse. No rules, just right.
    Lou and "Boo" - The man you love to hate.

    Boo- The car you love to hate.

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  9. #29
    As seen on TV! Dracula's Avatar
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    And that is why I think Josh should step down.

    It was Steve who first banned Bill and I did so for a month the second time when he acted up after that.
    -Chad K.
    Previous owner of VINS: 6982, 1601, 1265, and 1269

    Dammit, Jim. I'm an undertaker, not a mechanic.

  10. #30
    I think Steve should step down... and have some french toast before stepping back up.

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