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Thread: How to Install a 3.0L PRV into your DeLorean

  1. #1
    In this thread I will describe what is needed to swap a 3.0L PRV into your DeLorean using Megasquirt. Specific attention will be paid to disrupting the car's original appearance and function as little as possible. The philosophy of the swap will not be addressed here, since that is a lengthy discussion in its own. Rather, this will be a technical HOWTO guide. The advantages and disadvantages of this swap will be apparent after reading this guide.

    This will be a "living" document that is continually revised and updated as more/better/newer information becomes available. It will also help owners who are considering the swap to better understand what exactly is involved, and whether doing so is worth the trouble. Whenever possible, vendor names and exact part numbers will be used.

    Let's get started.

    Donor Vehicles:
    1988 - 1992 Eagle Premier or Dodge Monaco
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_Monaco
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle_Premier

    The Eagle Premier and Dodge Monaco came with two engines, a 2.5L 4-cylinder and a 3.0L 6-cylinder. The 4-cylinder engine was dropped after the 1989 model year. This guide will deal only with the 3.0L engine, hereafter referred to as the "engine."

    There are two variations of the engine assembly, with the dividing line falling somewhere in mid-1991.
    The differences are summarized in the table below.

    1988 - (mid) 1991 (mid) 1991 - 1992
    Distributor-based Ignition 100214_primary.jpg Distributor-less Ignition ignition.jpg
    Water Pump 43036-2.jpg Water Pump 43035-2.jpg

    There is no reason to choose an engine based on anything other than condition, since most any accessory component can, and should be purchased as new.

    Teardown
    Teardown of the engine to the minimum degree necessary for the swap. Complete rebuild of this engine will NOT be covered here.
    Remove exhaust system components (including EGR valve).
    Remove power steering pump.
    Remove valve covers.
    Remove timing cover.
    Remove oil pan.

    Replacing the Lower Crankcase & Oil Pan Assembly
    In order for the engine to mount in the same fashion as the stock 2.85L DMC engine, it is necessary to swap the bottom end. This includes the lower crankcase, oil pickup, oil pan baffle, and oil pan, as well as the nuts/bolts/washers/etc. It is easiest to utilize a donor 2.85L DMC engine, which, in a state of disrepair, can often be had for a better overall price than ordering everything new (since the unused parts can be resold on eBay).

    Fuel Injection
    The engine comes with Bosch EV-1 style injectors. Here's what they look like:
    FJ21_FULL.JPG
    Most will be very rusty due to their steel body. I recommend replacing them with some new Bosch EV-6 injectors (24lb, just in case you ever want to upgrade to forced induction). You can buy EV-6 injectors having the EV-1 style connector, or the newer EV-6 connector. Pigtails are available for either at diyautotune.com. 24LB is a good flow rate for either normally aspirated or moderate boost applications.

    Ignition
    It is has been my experience that utilizing the Ford EDIS6 system is the most straightforward and reliable way to supply ignition. More info can be found here (http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/EDIS.htm).
    The reasons are as follows:
    1. The module is weatherproof, durable, and proven.
    2. The module calculates the dwell internally and automatically.
    3. The module can be used with the engine's stock ignition coil (late 91 - 1992 models) without modification.
    4. The module provides a tach output (IDM pin 2) which is compatible with the DeLorean's tachometer gauge with no additional modification or circuitry.
    5. The module utilizes a VR sensor coupled to a conventional 36-1 trigger wheel mounted on the crankshaft, which is not subject to inaccuracies attributed to slop in the timing chain as with a cam-based sensor.

    An EDIS 6 kit can often be found on eBay, or you can pull it from a junkyard yourself. The only parts needed are the EDIS6 module and the accompanying VR sensor. The EDIS coil wires & ignition coil are not used in lieu of the more conventional plug wires and stock ignition coil (mid 91 - 1992 models only, see above). I recommend Magnecor plug wires because of their noise suppressing qualities. Part numbers for 7mm, 8mm, and 8.5mm wires are: 6742, 6042, 6452, respectively.


    Mounting the trigger wheel & VR sensor
    The EDIS module needs to see a 36-1 trigger wheel. The best place to put it is on the back of the engine's crankshaft pulley. You can buy a steel 36-1 trigger wheel from eBay, or around the web. Look for one that's around 7.5 - 8" in diameter. The stock pulley is 6.75" in diameter, and you will want to provide the VR sensor with a cleaner signal by extending a bit further away than that.

    A competent machinist can remove a small amount of material from the back of the stock crankshaft pulley, thereby creating a "step" for the trigger wheel to rest on. Once this is done, the trigger wheel can be fully welded, albeit slowly, since it will have a tendency to distort. More details on this will be shown later.

    The VR sensor can be conveniently and solidly mounted on a flat piece of 1/8" steel/stainless/aluminum directly on top of the driver-side muffler bracket. Details of this bracket will be shown later.

    Alternator
    The engine's alternator is mounted in the same place as the DeLorean's driver-side muffler bracket. This is a problem, because, as mentioned previously, this is also in the same place where we would like to mount our VR sensor.

    It is my preference to mount the alternator instead in the same passenger-side location as found on the DeLorean. In this way, the starter/alternator wiring can be re-used, a DeLorean-style exhaust can be used, and the overall appearance is closer to a stock. Here is an image of John Hervey's D110 mounted with a swapped serpentine pulley and custom alternator tensioner.
    tensioner.jpg
    In this way, a DeLorean-style alternator can be used, which any vendor/future owner would recognize and find replacement parts if necessary. As for the serpentine pulley, any alternator shop can provide and install it for you. I bought mine from Arlington Armature in Lorton, VA.


    Water Pump
    As mentioned above, there are two varieties of water pump available for the engine. One from the earlier engines, which closely resembles the stock DeLorean pump, and a much more exotic later variation. For me, this was a no-brainer. Utilizing the earlier style water pump allows for use of the stock DeLorean water pump hoses, which simplifies finding replacement parts in the future.

    Air Conditioning
    The DeLorean's stock AC hoses can be connected to the DeLorean's compressor by reducing the diameter of the low pressure hose connector with a file. This procedure will be shown later.

    Drive belts
    Size of the serpentine belt needed, as well as part numbers for idler pulleys.



    Throttle Spool
    Connecting the engine's throttle spool to the DeLorean throttle cable.

    Exhaust Choices
    For the purpose of easily obtaining replacement parts in the future, I would advise using an exhaust system available from any of the well-known DeLorean vendors. Any kit will bolt-on the engine as long as the alternator is relocated as mentioned above.

    Eliminating the Otterstat
    With the use of Megasquirt, the otterstat is no longer needed. Megasquirt can utilize its FIDLE output to turn the radiator fans on and off based on coolant temperature. More info can be found here (http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/spare.htm).
    You can leave the otterstat in place, or my recommendation is to remove both it and the pipe and replace with DeLorean part #105995. This pipe can be cut-down to the same size as part #110131 using a chop-saw (No, the hoses won't slide off without the retaining bead).

    Megasquirt
    Selection of and placement of the Megasquirt unit & accessories.

    Sensor Locating
    The mechanical details of locating and installing the required sensors to operate Megasquirt.

    Wiring
    The wiring portion can be greatly simplified by purchasing the Relay Board (http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/m...unit-p-32.html) and wiring kit (http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/1...eady-p-43.html) from DIYAutotune. In addition to several other advantages, this will allow you to do away with the problematic RPM relay.

    First Startup & Tuning
    An MSQ (tune) file to get you running and driving immediately.

    Dyno Numbers
    What kind of power can you expect from the swap.

    Other Considerations
    Thoughts on possible improvements.
    Last edited by Boglin; 10-02-2013 at 03:59 PM.

  2. #2
    Devout Follower Of He Who Walks Behind The Rows NightFlyer's Avatar
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    I'm looking forward to this!

    Will you be using the ecu from the donor vehicle, or an aftermarket controller for fuel/ignition?
    "Driving Concours - proving it's possible with every mile!"

    --Josh S.
    #1798

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by NightFlyer View Post
    I'm looking forward to this!

    Will you be using the ecu from the donor vehicle, or an aftermarket controller for fuel/ignition?
    Aftermarket. The factory/stock ECU could potentially be used, but because of the difficulty in troubleshooting it, I won't be going over it since the potential for electrical problems are many.

  4. #4
    Note: Early model 3.0 with distributed spark ignition does not have any sort of crankshaft sensor inside the distributor -- it is nothing more than a spinning rotor. OEM application used a crankshaft position sensor triggered by the flywheel/flexplate. In nearly all DeLorean applications (except perhaps mounting an OEM flexplate to an automatic DeLorean torque converter, providing a sensor can be adapted to the bellhousing) an alternative crankshaft sensor will be necessary. Missing tooth gear behind the crankshaft pulley seems to be most common.

    Bill Robertson
    #5939

  5. #5
    Thread bump. Any progress on this?

  6. #6
    Senior Member
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    I too would love to see some progress! Currently designing up a trigger wheel setup and an overall wiring diagram among many other little things. Matt has done a great job at starting this thread considering he did the swap quite a while ago and is going off memory. They will be posted eventually.

    I feel like I am working backwards with some things, as they have already been done before but I have to track down the appropriate people to find the information, or just figure out everything myself. I am ok with doing it myself, it just takes longer. It has also been mentioned that several of the required brackets were made by DPI (trigger wheel and cps mount, coil mount, etc) But when I contacted him he tells me it was a one off and he cannot sell me the part. I find this slightly frustrating as i have to re-design a part that was already designed.
    Last edited by Josh; 09-25-2013 at 05:54 PM.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh View Post
    It has also been mentioned that several of the required brackets were made by DPI (trigger wheel and cps mount, coil mount, etc) But when I contacted him he tells me it was a one off and he cannot sell me the part. I find this slightly frustrating as i have to re-design a part that was already designed.
    Really? I thought DPI was doing lots of 3.0 swaps. I guess not.
    Patrick C.
    VIN 1880
    A video of my modifications can be seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yUpusPAvJc

  8. #8
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick C View Post
    Really? I thought DPI was doing lots of 3.0 swaps. I guess not.
    I was under this assumption as well. From communications with Josh, he explained all the swaps are done in house (doesn't sell kits of any sort) and he is not using MegaSquirt. Not sure about the frequency of the swaps.

  9. #9
    I will get back to this shortly.

    DPI made the coil pack bracket for me that also mounts the upper muffler bracket. Two birds with one stone. I needed it because i use the stock delorean exhaust, which does sound slightly different with the 3.0L.

    The other brackets I made with help from a machine shop, but they are somewhat more trivial. I will show everything shortly including the belt.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
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    I am currently drawing up brackets in 3D cad, should I hold off Matt?

    I just got an email back from Josh. He is omitting the upper bracket from his SPEC 1 exhausts. I have the DMC stage 1. I was tugging on it without the upper bracket and it feels very stable. It is worth noting the 3.0 valve cover does not have the same mounting provisions as the 2.8 for the upper muffler bracket, so it is not a direct swap in any way. Matt, according to Josh you are using the only coil/muffler bracket and it will not be re-produced.

    When I get the brackets created (either designed by myself or referenced off of Matt's) I will be making the parts drawings available here, so they can be reproduced easily by any machine shop by simply handing them a piece of paper.
    Last edited by Josh; 09-25-2013 at 08:46 PM.

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