View Poll Results: Simplified Relay Compartment

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Thread: Simplified Relay Compartment

  1. #21
    Ford can call it what it wants -- it is a big electromagnetic NO solenoid. I've rebuilt several of them over the years (high amperage contacts arc when they open & close and eventually melt, but you can flip them over and double the unit's lifespan).

    All starter motors Have Bendixes. The motor would spin at engine RPM's otherwise.

    My AMC is wired the same way, albeit with the solenoid attached to the starter motor itself, GM style.

    Sidebar: one advantage of a remotely located solenoid is the ability to start your vehicle with a piece of scrap metal when the solenoid dies (you can't push start an automatic).

    Bill Robertson
    #5939

  2. #22
    Uncensored Hypocrite stevedmc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by content22207 View Post
    Here's a Mustang diagnostic drawing that also shows vintage ford starter wiring:

    Attachment 1107

    Bill Robertson
    #5939
    This is exactly how the starter works in my 1965 Mustang with one exception. My car doesn't have a relay mounted to the passenger side of the engine bay. It has a solenoid. Incidentally, my starter solenoid cost $10 and has a lifetime warranty at AutoZone. My stater cost $50 and has a lifetime warranty as well.

    Incidentally, AutoZone has the wrong starter listed in their database for my Mustang. My car actually uses a 1964 Ford Falcon starter according to AutoZone.
    Rest assured, we have a backup of Farrar's car blog and it will be restored in the near future. (Steve Rice - March 2016)
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by content22207 View Post
    Ford can call it what it wants -- it is a big electromagnetic NO solenoid. I've rebuilt several of them over the years (high amperage contacts arc when they open & close and eventually melt, but you can flip them over and double the unit's lifespan).

    All starter motors Have Bendixes. The motor would spin at engine RPM's otherwise.

    My AMC is wired the same way, albeit with the solenoid attached to the starter motor itself, GM style.

    Sidebar: one advantage of a remotely located solenoid is the ability to start your vehicle with a piece of scrap metal when the solenoid dies (you can't push start an automatic).

    Bill Robertson
    #5939
    Yes the terms used for starters drive me nuts.

    To me an electrical solenoid moves a mechanical device via electromagnet like our door solenoids or the GM type starter solenoid that pulls the gear into the flywheel. But as you stated the "starter relay" does in fact pull the contacts together with a moving core. A normal relay usually pulls the contacts with a fixed core electromagnet.

    To me a bendix is the drive that moved the gear into the flywheel by the rotating motion of the starter shaft. Hence the contacts for the starter motor have to be external to the starter. But all starters do have mechanics so the engine running can not back drive the starter motor.

    Here is a clip of what Ford did.

    Ford also issued a nonstandard starter, a direct-drive "movable pole shoe" design that provided cost reduction rather than electrical or mechanical benefits. This type of starter eliminated the solenoid, replacing it with a movable pole shoe and a separate starter relay. This starter operates as follows: The driver turns the key, activating the starter switch. A small electric current flows through the solenoid actuated starter relay, closing the contacts and sending large battery current to the starter motor. One of the pole shoes, hinged at the front, linked to the starter drive, and spring-loaded away from its normal operating position, is swung into position by the magnetic field created by electricity flowing through its field coil. This moves the starter drive forward to engage the flywheel ring gear, and simultaneously closes a pair of contacts supplying current to the rest of the starter motor winding. Once the engine starts and the driver releases the starter switch, a spring retracts the pole shoe, which pulls the starter drive out of engagement with the ring gear.

    This starter was used on Ford vehicles from 1973 through 1990, when a gear-reduction unit conceptually similar to the Chrysler unit replaced it.
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  4. #24
    Bottom line: amperage to trigger and close the starter motor switching device is a fraction of starter motor itself amperage. The device trigger will never see current even remotely comparable to the starter motor.

    I removed my supplementary switching device (starter solenoid relay) because it was redundant and a potential failure point. Of course I could always have jumpered it in such circumstance, but decided to just take it out of the equation altogether. Allowed me to remove that whole relay bank anyway.

    Somewhat related: I recommend rigging up a starter solenoid trigger wire in the engine compartment. This allows you to spin the engine from under the hood just like triggering the remote solenoid on an old Ford:



    Terribly handy when you're working by yourself.

    Bill Robertson
    #5939

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by stevedmc View Post
    Incidentally, AutoZone has the wrong starter listed in their database for my Mustang. My car actually uses a 1964 Ford Falcon starter according to AutoZone.
    That's because your car *IS* a 1964 Falcon (under that pretty Mustang sheet metal).

    Bill Robertson
    #5939

  6. #26
    Just measured current draw of my Blue Truck's starter solenoid/relay/electromagnetic switch device: ~.6 amps at 11.4 volts (measured at the battery). Starts at .7 amps, then drops to .5 amps during extended cranking.

    Bill Robertson
    #5939

  7. #27
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    could you get a reading on a delorean bill?

  8. #28
    Absolutely because I have the same engine compartment solenoid jumper mod Farrar has. I'm still traveling but will be home early next week.

    Bill Robertson
    #5939

  9. #29
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    Thank you! interested to see the results!

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